[External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design


Charles Allhands
 

Thanks Tom, those are great points. Some of our staff toured Marquette's lab awhile back and took inspiration from it. I haven't had a chance to see it yet but I would like to one of these days. I'll reach out to Dave when I get a chance.

Thanks,
Charles

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> on behalf of Tom Silman via groups.io <thomas.silman@...>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 5:44 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io>
Subject: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design
 

I was involved in the design build of Marquette University’s Discovery Learning Tower which contains the EMSTL.

https://www.marquette.edu/engineering/facilities/materials-structural-testing-lab.php

Strong wall/Strong floor with related material testing systems nearby. Concrete and Soils labs are adjacent.

The Director of Operations for the OCOE is one of the chief designers and is still here (probably bored due to the extended down time from Covid).

 

Storage

Storage is one of the first things that usually gets kyboshed but is the most important.

If you have a limited budget, you need to be able to pull useful items from storage or donation.

Every architect and engineer asks what you want to store because they will make a special place for it and won’t that be nice???

They want a list of things you probably won’t know to purchase for ten years and then you won’t have space…

So. Design a storage space for what you have now and double it or triple it if you can. Flexible space is like gold.

Make sure the space is next to the loading dock.

 

Loading dock

You will always be receiving something large to test.

Triple the size of the dock and have a dedicated place for material handling storage machines like a fork lift.

Stuff sits around the dock for months sometimes waiting for it to be installed, used and then stored (see storage)

 

Student Organizations

Concrete canoe, bridge and other things require flat space near the loading dock.

Places to hang coats. Places to study when not working on project. Places to clean up things.

You can put it adjacent to the Civil Testing floor so that they can see the real stuff being done.

We have a regular pipeline of grad students being developed from watching members of the student orgs work their projects.

 

Cleaning

Soils, concrete and steel all create an enormous amount of mess and dirt.

Make sure the drains have an oversized catch basin and the floor is pitched to the grate.

Simple I know, but you would be surprised how many architects forget this detail in the prints.

Have a large waterproof wall for hanging and cleaning tools with a hose that drains into a cleanable trough which then drains to the catch basin.

 

Material handling

We have a 10 ton crane over the entire civil floor.

It makes things easier to unload and place on the testing floor when needed. We move a lot of large pieces of steel.

The roll up access door is double sized to allow semi trailers to be parked inside and under the crane.

This is great during Wisconsin winters.

 

There is more but I’m running short of time.

 

If you would like a tour, come down and visit.

Contact Dave Newman for the grand tour at david.newman@...

He is understandably proud of his lab and a bit bored at the moment…

 

Regards

Tom Silman

Marquette University

OPUS College of Engineering

Discovery Learning Center

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Allhands
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 4:04 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io
Subject: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

All,
For those of you who I've met or may remember me from previous SSMC discussions, I have relocated to Minnesota and am now the lab manager for the civil engineering department at the University of St. Thomas. We are currently in the process of designing a new building to house our civil engineering labs (including soils, structures, concrete, and CE student orgs). I was curious if anyone in the group has been involved in a similar project and has suggestions on things they wish they had done (or not done) after being in the new space for awhile?

Thanks,
Charles Allhands


Christopher Gordon
 

Don't forget the roof!  When we expanded our facility in 2010 we created a rooftop workspace with regular door access and a robust railing system to allow for faculty/staff/student access without safety equipment or special certifications.  We conduct a safety orientation for users as needed and grant access to the area via a University ID card reader on the door.  The area is about 1000 sq ft and is regularly (but not heavily) used by wind, water and solar projects from our Civil and Environmental Engineering departments.  We also have ethernet, power, and water hookups on the roof (not generally used, handy for a webcam to monitor projects) and kept an open conduit to the indoor lab space below for future growth.  The only thing I wish we included were robust anchors in the roof for equipment like wind turbines, we end up using the railings as anchor points for some of the projects.

unnamed-1.jpg

unnamed-2.jpg


--
Chris Gordon
he, him, his
Director, Wilson Student Team Project Center
University of Michigan College of Engineering
2603 Draper, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2101
734-763-1224 | Fax 734-615-6411


On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 10:15 AM Charles Allhands <charles.allhands@...> wrote:
Thanks Tom, those are great points. Some of our staff toured Marquette's lab awhile back and took inspiration from it. I haven't had a chance to see it yet but I would like to one of these days. I'll reach out to Dave when I get a chance.

Thanks,
Charles

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> on behalf of Tom Silman via groups.io <thomas.silman=marquette.edu@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 5:44 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io>
Subject: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design
 

I was involved in the design build of Marquette University’s Discovery Learning Tower which contains the EMSTL.

https://www.marquette.edu/engineering/facilities/materials-structural-testing-lab.php

Strong wall/Strong floor with related material testing systems nearby. Concrete and Soils labs are adjacent.

The Director of Operations for the OCOE is one of the chief designers and is still here (probably bored due to the extended down time from Covid).

 

Storage

Storage is one of the first things that usually gets kyboshed but is the most important.

If you have a limited budget, you need to be able to pull useful items from storage or donation.

Every architect and engineer asks what you want to store because they will make a special place for it and won’t that be nice???

They want a list of things you probably won’t know to purchase for ten years and then you won’t have space…

So. Design a storage space for what you have now and double it or triple it if you can. Flexible space is like gold.

Make sure the space is next to the loading dock.

 

Loading dock

You will always be receiving something large to test.

Triple the size of the dock and have a dedicated place for material handling storage machines like a fork lift.

Stuff sits around the dock for months sometimes waiting for it to be installed, used and then stored (see storage)

 

Student Organizations

Concrete canoe, bridge and other things require flat space near the loading dock.

Places to hang coats. Places to study when not working on project. Places to clean up things.

You can put it adjacent to the Civil Testing floor so that they can see the real stuff being done.

We have a regular pipeline of grad students being developed from watching members of the student orgs work their projects.

 

Cleaning

Soils, concrete and steel all create an enormous amount of mess and dirt.

Make sure the drains have an oversized catch basin and the floor is pitched to the grate.

Simple I know, but you would be surprised how many architects forget this detail in the prints.

Have a large waterproof wall for hanging and cleaning tools with a hose that drains into a cleanable trough which then drains to the catch basin.

 

Material handling

We have a 10 ton crane over the entire civil floor.

It makes things easier to unload and place on the testing floor when needed. We move a lot of large pieces of steel.

The roll up access door is double sized to allow semi trailers to be parked inside and under the crane.

This is great during Wisconsin winters.

 

There is more but I’m running short of time.

 

If you would like a tour, come down and visit.

Contact Dave Newman for the grand tour at david.newman@...

He is understandably proud of his lab and a bit bored at the moment…

 

Regards

Tom Silman

Marquette University

OPUS College of Engineering

Discovery Learning Center

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Allhands
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 4:04 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io
Subject: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

All,
For those of you who I've met or may remember me from previous SSMC discussions, I have relocated to Minnesota and am now the lab manager for the civil engineering department at the University of St. Thomas. We are currently in the process of designing a new building to house our civil engineering labs (including soils, structures, concrete, and CE student orgs). I was curious if anyone in the group has been involved in a similar project and has suggestions on things they wish they had done (or not done) after being in the new space for awhile?

Thanks,
Charles Allhands


Charles Allhands
 

Chris,
That's a great idea, I hadn't even considered that!

Thanks,
Charles

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> on behalf of Christopher Gordon via groups.io <gordoncl@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:00 AM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io>
Cc: Allhands, Charles <charles.allhands@...>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design
 
Don't forget the roof!  When we expanded our facility in 2010 we created a rooftop workspace with regular door access and a robust railing system to allow for faculty/staff/student access without safety equipment or special certifications.  We conduct a safety orientation for users as needed and grant access to the area via a University ID card reader on the door.  The area is about 1000 sq ft and is regularly (but not heavily) used by wind, water and solar projects from our Civil and Environmental Engineering departments.  We also have ethernet, power, and water hookups on the roof (not generally used, handy for a webcam to monitor projects) and kept an open conduit to the indoor lab space below for future growth.  The only thing I wish we included were robust anchors in the roof for equipment like wind turbines, we end up using the railings as anchor points for some of the projects.

unnamed-1.jpg

unnamed-2.jpg


--
Chris Gordon
he, him, his
Director, Wilson Student Team Project Center
University of Michigan College of Engineering
2603 Draper, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2101
734-763-1224 | Fax 734-615-6411


On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 10:15 AM Charles Allhands <charles.allhands@...> wrote:

Thanks Tom, those are great points. Some of our staff toured Marquette's lab awhile back and took inspiration from it. I haven't had a chance to see it yet but I would like to one of these days. I'll reach out to Dave when I get a chance.

Thanks,
Charles

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> on behalf of Tom Silman via groups.io <thomas.silman=marquette.edu@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 5:44 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io>
Subject: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design
 

I was involved in the design build of Marquette University’s Discovery Learning Tower which contains the EMSTL.

https://www.marquette.edu/engineering/facilities/materials-structural-testing-lab.php

Strong wall/Strong floor with related material testing systems nearby. Concrete and Soils labs are adjacent.

The Director of Operations for the OCOE is one of the chief designers and is still here (probably bored due to the extended down time from Covid).

 

Storage

Storage is one of the first things that usually gets kyboshed but is the most important.

If you have a limited budget, you need to be able to pull useful items from storage or donation.

Every architect and engineer asks what you want to store because they will make a special place for it and won’t that be nice???

They want a list of things you probably won’t know to purchase for ten years and then you won’t have space…

So. Design a storage space for what you have now and double it or triple it if you can. Flexible space is like gold.

Make sure the space is next to the loading dock.

 

Loading dock

You will always be receiving something large to test.

Triple the size of the dock and have a dedicated place for material handling storage machines like a fork lift.

Stuff sits around the dock for months sometimes waiting for it to be installed, used and then stored (see storage)

 

Student Organizations

Concrete canoe, bridge and other things require flat space near the loading dock.

Places to hang coats. Places to study when not working on project. Places to clean up things.

You can put it adjacent to the Civil Testing floor so that they can see the real stuff being done.

We have a regular pipeline of grad students being developed from watching members of the student orgs work their projects.

 

Cleaning

Soils, concrete and steel all create an enormous amount of mess and dirt.

Make sure the drains have an oversized catch basin and the floor is pitched to the grate.

Simple I know, but you would be surprised how many architects forget this detail in the prints.

Have a large waterproof wall for hanging and cleaning tools with a hose that drains into a cleanable trough which then drains to the catch basin.

 

Material handling

We have a 10 ton crane over the entire civil floor.

It makes things easier to unload and place on the testing floor when needed. We move a lot of large pieces of steel.

The roll up access door is double sized to allow semi trailers to be parked inside and under the crane.

This is great during Wisconsin winters.

 

There is more but I’m running short of time.

 

If you would like a tour, come down and visit.

Contact Dave Newman for the grand tour at david.newman@...

He is understandably proud of his lab and a bit bored at the moment…

 

Regards

Tom Silman

Marquette University

OPUS College of Engineering

Discovery Learning Center

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Allhands
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 4:04 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io
Subject: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

All,
For those of you who I've met or may remember me from previous SSMC discussions, I have relocated to Minnesota and am now the lab manager for the civil engineering department at the University of St. Thomas. We are currently in the process of designing a new building to house our civil engineering labs (including soils, structures, concrete, and CE student orgs). I was curious if anyone in the group has been involved in a similar project and has suggestions on things they wish they had done (or not done) after being in the new space for awhile?

Thanks,
Charles Allhands


Tom Silman
 

I second the placement of power, ethernet, water hookups and drains.

 

Do not be pulled into the wireless is better argument.

RFI is a thing and hard cable minimizes a lot of the interference.

It is amazing how often an outlet and an ethernet port is needed.

I have ports and power placed in the floors and on the walls.

Caught much grief for the minimal added expense.

But, it is way more expensive to install new after the fact than it is to move port and power.

 

Make sure you have several flavors of power and map them on your test floors and lab spaces.

- 3phase/1phase 120VAC, 240VAC, 208VAC, 450 VAC – all of the standard voltages/phases.

Overdo it. It is more expensive to put in new than it is to run a new line.

Call your power company to find out what is available to your site on campus.

It may be that your site placement is not conveniently near a trunk line.

 

Also, one of the best things we did was to map all resources available in a lab space.

  • Power
  • Water
  • Floor drains
  • Chill water hook up
  • Compressed house air
  • Vacuum connections
  • Internet capable Ethernet
  • Local network only Ethernet (Control systems for the MTS system are isolated.)
  • Hydraulic line connections (We have a hard piped hydraulic system.)
  • Lab equipment ( after buildout )

When a PI wants to set up an experiment, an inordinate amount of time is spent coordinating resource locations.

If you make an as built space drawing available, it will shorten the discussions and time needed.

 

Some lab equipment require a special foundations.

A Charpy hammer for materials testing is a pretty good example.

While you can get away with just bolting to a 6in slab, a little planning allows a 36 inch deep pad to be placed and poured.

Makes for a more solid installation and more precise testing results.

If you include multiple outlets near the hammer, you can set up multiple temperature baths for material testing.

We use 6 baths set at various temperatures to show students the transition temperature for steels in one lab.

We couldn’t do this before. Not enough space or outlets.

 

I can go on… 😊

 

Regards

T

 

 

 

 

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Allhands
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:07 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

Chris,

That's a great idea, I hadn't even considered that!

 

Thanks,
Charles


From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> on behalf of Christopher Gordon via groups.io <gordoncl@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:00 AM
To:
main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io>
Cc: Allhands, Charles <
charles.allhands@...>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

Don't forget the roof!  When we expanded our facility in 2010 we created a rooftop workspace with regular door access and a robust railing system to allow for faculty/staff/student access without safety equipment or special certifications.  We conduct a safety orientation for users as needed and grant access to the area via a University ID card reader on the door.  The area is about 1000 sq ft and is regularly (but not heavily) used by wind, water and solar projects from our Civil and Environmental Engineering departments.  We also have ethernet, power, and water hookups on the roof (not generally used, handy for a webcam to monitor projects) and kept an open conduit to the indoor lab space below for future growth.  The only thing I wish we included were robust anchors in the roof for equipment like wind turbines, we end up using the railings as anchor points for some of the projects.

 

 

 


--

Chris Gordon

he, him, his

Director, Wilson Student Team Project Center

University of Michigan College of Engineering

2603 Draper, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2101

734-763-1224 | Fax 734-615-6411

 

 

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 10:15 AM Charles Allhands <charles.allhands@...> wrote:

Thanks Tom, those are great points. Some of our staff toured Marquette's lab awhile back and took inspiration from it. I haven't had a chance to see it yet but I would like to one of these days. I'll reach out to Dave when I get a chance.

 

Thanks,

Charles


From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> on behalf of Tom Silman via groups.io <thomas.silman=marquette.edu@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 5:44 PM
To:
main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io>
Subject: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

I was involved in the design build of Marquette University’s Discovery Learning Tower which contains the EMSTL.

https://www.marquette.edu/engineering/facilities/materials-structural-testing-lab.php

Strong wall/Strong floor with related material testing systems nearby. Concrete and Soils labs are adjacent.

The Director of Operations for the OCOE is one of the chief designers and is still here (probably bored due to the extended down time from Covid).

 

Storage

Storage is one of the first things that usually gets kyboshed but is the most important.

If you have a limited budget, you need to be able to pull useful items from storage or donation.

Every architect and engineer asks what you want to store because they will make a special place for it and won’t that be nice???

They want a list of things you probably won’t know to purchase for ten years and then you won’t have space…

So. Design a storage space for what you have now and double it or triple it if you can. Flexible space is like gold.

Make sure the space is next to the loading dock.

 

Loading dock

You will always be receiving something large to test.

Triple the size of the dock and have a dedicated place for material handling storage machines like a fork lift.

Stuff sits around the dock for months sometimes waiting for it to be installed, used and then stored (see storage)

 

Student Organizations

Concrete canoe, bridge and other things require flat space near the loading dock.

Places to hang coats. Places to study when not working on project. Places to clean up things.

You can put it adjacent to the Civil Testing floor so that they can see the real stuff being done.

We have a regular pipeline of grad students being developed from watching members of the student orgs work their projects.

 

Cleaning

Soils, concrete and steel all create an enormous amount of mess and dirt.

Make sure the drains have an oversized catch basin and the floor is pitched to the grate.

Simple I know, but you would be surprised how many architects forget this detail in the prints.

Have a large waterproof wall for hanging and cleaning tools with a hose that drains into a cleanable trough which then drains to the catch basin.

 

Material handling

We have a 10 ton crane over the entire civil floor.

It makes things easier to unload and place on the testing floor when needed. We move a lot of large pieces of steel.

The roll up access door is double sized to allow semi trailers to be parked inside and under the crane.

This is great during Wisconsin winters.

 

There is more but I’m running short of time.

 

If you would like a tour, come down and visit.

Contact Dave Newman for the grand tour at david.newman@...

He is understandably proud of his lab and a bit bored at the moment…

 

Regards

Tom Silman

Marquette University

OPUS College of Engineering

Discovery Learning Center

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Allhands
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 4:04 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io
Subject: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

All,
For those of you who I've met or may remember me from previous SSMC discussions, I have relocated to Minnesota and am now the lab manager for the civil engineering department at the University of St. Thomas. We are currently in the process of designing a new building to house our civil engineering labs (including soils, structures, concrete, and CE student orgs). I was curious if anyone in the group has been involved in a similar project and has suggestions on things they wish they had done (or not done) after being in the new space for awhile?

Thanks,
Charles Allhands


Charles Allhands
 

Thanks Tom, I couldn't agree more on overdoing utilities. I will definitely be pushing for that.

-Charles

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> on behalf of Tom Silman via groups.io <thomas.silman@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:59 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design
 

I second the placement of power, ethernet, water hookups and drains.

 

Do not be pulled into the wireless is better argument.

RFI is a thing and hard cable minimizes a lot of the interference.

It is amazing how often an outlet and an ethernet port is needed.

I have ports and power placed in the floors and on the walls.

Caught much grief for the minimal added expense.

But, it is way more expensive to install new after the fact than it is to move port and power.

 

Make sure you have several flavors of power and map them on your test floors and lab spaces.

- 3phase/1phase 120VAC, 240VAC, 208VAC, 450 VAC – all of the standard voltages/phases.

Overdo it. It is more expensive to put in new than it is to run a new line.

Call your power company to find out what is available to your site on campus.

It may be that your site placement is not conveniently near a trunk line.

 

Also, one of the best things we did was to map all resources available in a lab space.

  • Power
  • Water
  • Floor drains
  • Chill water hook up
  • Compressed house air
  • Vacuum connections
  • Internet capable Ethernet
  • Local network only Ethernet (Control systems for the MTS system are isolated.)
  • Hydraulic line connections (We have a hard piped hydraulic system.)
  • Lab equipment ( after buildout )

When a PI wants to set up an experiment, an inordinate amount of time is spent coordinating resource locations.

If you make an as built space drawing available, it will shorten the discussions and time needed.

 

Some lab equipment require a special foundations.

A Charpy hammer for materials testing is a pretty good example.

While you can get away with just bolting to a 6in slab, a little planning allows a 36 inch deep pad to be placed and poured.

Makes for a more solid installation and more precise testing results.

If you include multiple outlets near the hammer, you can set up multiple temperature baths for material testing.

We use 6 baths set at various temperatures to show students the transition temperature for steels in one lab.

We couldn’t do this before. Not enough space or outlets.

 

I can go on… 😊

 

Regards

T

 

 

 

 

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Allhands
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:07 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

Chris,

That's a great idea, I hadn't even considered that!

 

Thanks,
Charles


From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> on behalf of Christopher Gordon via groups.io <gordoncl@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:00 AM
To:
main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io>
Cc: Allhands, Charles <
charles.allhands@...>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

Don't forget the roof!  When we expanded our facility in 2010 we created a rooftop workspace with regular door access and a robust railing system to allow for faculty/staff/student access without safety equipment or special certifications.  We conduct a safety orientation for users as needed and grant access to the area via a University ID card reader on the door.  The area is about 1000 sq ft and is regularly (but not heavily) used by wind, water and solar projects from our Civil and Environmental Engineering departments.  We also have ethernet, power, and water hookups on the roof (not generally used, handy for a webcam to monitor projects) and kept an open conduit to the indoor lab space below for future growth.  The only thing I wish we included were robust anchors in the roof for equipment like wind turbines, we end up using the railings as anchor points for some of the projects.

 

 

 


--

Chris Gordon

he, him, his

Director, Wilson Student Team Project Center

University of Michigan College of Engineering

2603 Draper, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2101

734-763-1224 | Fax 734-615-6411

 

 

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 10:15 AM Charles Allhands <charles.allhands@...> wrote:

Thanks Tom, those are great points. Some of our staff toured Marquette's lab awhile back and took inspiration from it. I haven't had a chance to see it yet but I would like to one of these days. I'll reach out to Dave when I get a chance.

 

Thanks,

Charles


From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> on behalf of Tom Silman via groups.io <thomas.silman=marquette.edu@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 5:44 PM
To:
main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io>
Subject: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

I was involved in the design build of Marquette University’s Discovery Learning Tower which contains the EMSTL.

https://www.marquette.edu/engineering/facilities/materials-structural-testing-lab.php

Strong wall/Strong floor with related material testing systems nearby. Concrete and Soils labs are adjacent.

The Director of Operations for the OCOE is one of the chief designers and is still here (probably bored due to the extended down time from Covid).

 

Storage

Storage is one of the first things that usually gets kyboshed but is the most important.

If you have a limited budget, you need to be able to pull useful items from storage or donation.

Every architect and engineer asks what you want to store because they will make a special place for it and won’t that be nice???

They want a list of things you probably won’t know to purchase for ten years and then you won’t have space…

So. Design a storage space for what you have now and double it or triple it if you can. Flexible space is like gold.

Make sure the space is next to the loading dock.

 

Loading dock

You will always be receiving something large to test.

Triple the size of the dock and have a dedicated place for material handling storage machines like a fork lift.

Stuff sits around the dock for months sometimes waiting for it to be installed, used and then stored (see storage)

 

Student Organizations

Concrete canoe, bridge and other things require flat space near the loading dock.

Places to hang coats. Places to study when not working on project. Places to clean up things.

You can put it adjacent to the Civil Testing floor so that they can see the real stuff being done.

We have a regular pipeline of grad students being developed from watching members of the student orgs work their projects.

 

Cleaning

Soils, concrete and steel all create an enormous amount of mess and dirt.

Make sure the drains have an oversized catch basin and the floor is pitched to the grate.

Simple I know, but you would be surprised how many architects forget this detail in the prints.

Have a large waterproof wall for hanging and cleaning tools with a hose that drains into a cleanable trough which then drains to the catch basin.

 

Material handling

We have a 10 ton crane over the entire civil floor.

It makes things easier to unload and place on the testing floor when needed. We move a lot of large pieces of steel.

The roll up access door is double sized to allow semi trailers to be parked inside and under the crane.

This is great during Wisconsin winters.

 

There is more but I’m running short of time.

 

If you would like a tour, come down and visit.

Contact Dave Newman for the grand tour at david.newman@...

He is understandably proud of his lab and a bit bored at the moment…

 

Regards

Tom Silman

Marquette University

OPUS College of Engineering

Discovery Learning Center

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Allhands
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 4:04 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io
Subject: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

All,
For those of you who I've met or may remember me from previous SSMC discussions, I have relocated to Minnesota and am now the lab manager for the civil engineering department at the University of St. Thomas. We are currently in the process of designing a new building to house our civil engineering labs (including soils, structures, concrete, and CE student orgs). I was curious if anyone in the group has been involved in a similar project and has suggestions on things they wish they had done (or not done) after being in the new space for awhile?

Thanks,
Charles Allhands


jacob tompkins
 

As to utilities location/relocation.  Theres a  Georgia Tech lab called the “C-nes lab” (carbon neutral energy solutions)  where the main bay of the lab is designed to be easily reconfigurable.  It has 2 reinforced utilities trenches running the length of the lab on either side and heavy steel grates with ports to cover the trench.  All needed utilities (water, power, air, gas, etc) for machines/experiments can be run through the trenches using soft cable/hose and then removed easily when the bay needs to be reconfigured.

  If you look at the section drawing in this article they show a big trench on one end and theres a smaller one on the other not shown.

https://www.csemag.com/articles/carbon-neutral-energy-solutions-laboratory/

Were I starting new I’d be looking to do the same.  I’m incredibly jealous since my building was built 30 years before these and utilities location/relocation is an annoying annual expense that always requires a scissors lift and an electrician.  


-Jake Tompkins
Lab Manager
Digital Fabrication Lab 
School of Architecture 
Georgia Institute of Technology

On Aug 5, 2020, at 5:30 PM, Charles Allhands <charles.allhands@...> wrote:


Thanks Tom, I couldn't agree more on overdoing utilities. I will definitely be pushing for that.

-Charles

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> on behalf of Tom Silman via groups.io <thomas.silman@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:59 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design
 

I second the placement of power, ethernet, water hookups and drains.

 

Do not be pulled into the wireless is better argument.

RFI is a thing and hard cable minimizes a lot of the interference.

It is amazing how often an outlet and an ethernet port is needed.

I have ports and power placed in the floors and on the walls.

Caught much grief for the minimal added expense.

But, it is way more expensive to install new after the fact than it is to move port and power.

 

Make sure you have several flavors of power and map them on your test floors and lab spaces.

- 3phase/1phase 120VAC, 240VAC, 208VAC, 450 VAC – all of the standard voltages/phases.

Overdo it. It is more expensive to put in new than it is to run a new line.

Call your power company to find out what is available to your site on campus.

It may be that your site placement is not conveniently near a trunk line.

 

Also, one of the best things we did was to map all resources available in a lab space.

  • Power
  • Water
  • Floor drains
  • Chill water hook up
  • Compressed house air
  • Vacuum connections
  • Internet capable Ethernet
  • Local network only Ethernet (Control systems for the MTS system are isolated.)
  • Hydraulic line connections (We have a hard piped hydraulic system.)
  • Lab equipment ( after buildout )

When a PI wants to set up an experiment, an inordinate amount of time is spent coordinating resource locations.

If you make an as built space drawing available, it will shorten the discussions and time needed.

 

Some lab equipment require a special foundations.

A Charpy hammer for materials testing is a pretty good example.

While you can get away with just bolting to a 6in slab, a little planning allows a 36 inch deep pad to be placed and poured.

Makes for a more solid installation and more precise testing results.

If you include multiple outlets near the hammer, you can set up multiple temperature baths for material testing.

We use 6 baths set at various temperatures to show students the transition temperature for steels in one lab.

We couldn’t do this before. Not enough space or outlets.

 

I can go on… 😊

 

Regards

T

 

 

 

 

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Allhands
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:07 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

Chris,

That's a great idea, I hadn't even considered that!

 

Thanks,
Charles


From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> on behalf of Christopher Gordon via groups.io <gordoncl@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:00 AM
To:
main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io>
Cc: Allhands, Charles <
charles.allhands@...>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

Don't forget the roof!  When we expanded our facility in 2010 we created a rooftop workspace with regular door access and a robust railing system to allow for faculty/staff/student access without safety equipment or special certifications.  We conduct a safety orientation for users as needed and grant access to the area via a University ID card reader on the door.  The area is about 1000 sq ft and is regularly (but not heavily) used by wind, water and solar projects from our Civil and Environmental Engineering departments.  We also have ethernet, power, and water hookups on the roof (not generally used, handy for a webcam to monitor projects) and kept an open conduit to the indoor lab space below for future growth.  The only thing I wish we included were robust anchors in the roof for equipment like wind turbines, we end up using the railings as anchor points for some of the projects.

 

 

 


--

Chris Gordon

he, him, his

Director, Wilson Student Team Project Center

University of Michigan College of Engineering

2603 Draper, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2101

734-763-1224 | Fax 734-615-6411

 

 

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 10:15 AM Charles Allhands <charles.allhands@...> wrote:

Thanks Tom, those are great points. Some of our staff toured Marquette's lab awhile back and took inspiration from it. I haven't had a chance to see it yet but I would like to one of these days. I'll reach out to Dave when I get a chance.

 

Thanks,

Charles


From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> on behalf of Tom Silman via groups.io <thomas.silman=marquette.edu@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 5:44 PM
To:
main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io>
Subject: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

I was involved in the design build of Marquette University’s Discovery Learning Tower which contains the EMSTL.

https://www.marquette.edu/engineering/facilities/materials-structural-testing-lab.php

Strong wall/Strong floor with related material testing systems nearby. Concrete and Soils labs are adjacent.

The Director of Operations for the OCOE is one of the chief designers and is still here (probably bored due to the extended down time from Covid).

 

Storage

Storage is one of the first things that usually gets kyboshed but is the most important.

If you have a limited budget, you need to be able to pull useful items from storage or donation.

Every architect and engineer asks what you want to store because they will make a special place for it and won’t that be nice???

They want a list of things you probably won’t know to purchase for ten years and then you won’t have space…

So. Design a storage space for what you have now and double it or triple it if you can. Flexible space is like gold.

Make sure the space is next to the loading dock.

 

Loading dock

You will always be receiving something large to test.

Triple the size of the dock and have a dedicated place for material handling storage machines like a fork lift.

Stuff sits around the dock for months sometimes waiting for it to be installed, used and then stored (see storage)

 

Student Organizations

Concrete canoe, bridge and other things require flat space near the loading dock.

Places to hang coats. Places to study when not working on project. Places to clean up things.

You can put it adjacent to the Civil Testing floor so that they can see the real stuff being done.

We have a regular pipeline of grad students being developed from watching members of the student orgs work their projects.

 

Cleaning

Soils, concrete and steel all create an enormous amount of mess and dirt.

Make sure the drains have an oversized catch basin and the floor is pitched to the grate.

Simple I know, but you would be surprised how many architects forget this detail in the prints.

Have a large waterproof wall for hanging and cleaning tools with a hose that drains into a cleanable trough which then drains to the catch basin.

 

Material handling

We have a 10 ton crane over the entire civil floor.

It makes things easier to unload and place on the testing floor when needed. We move a lot of large pieces of steel.

The roll up access door is double sized to allow semi trailers to be parked inside and under the crane.

This is great during Wisconsin winters.

 

There is more but I’m running short of time.

 

If you would like a tour, come down and visit.

Contact Dave Newman for the grand tour at david.newman@...

He is understandably proud of his lab and a bit bored at the moment…

 

Regards

Tom Silman

Marquette University

OPUS College of Engineering

Discovery Learning Center

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Allhands
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 4:04 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io
Subject: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

All,
For those of you who I've met or may remember me from previous SSMC discussions, I have relocated to Minnesota and am now the lab manager for the civil engineering department at the University of St. Thomas. We are currently in the process of designing a new building to house our civil engineering labs (including soils, structures, concrete, and CE student orgs). I was curious if anyone in the group has been involved in a similar project and has suggestions on things they wish they had done (or not done) after being in the new space for awhile?

Thanks,
Charles Allhands


Charles Allhands
 

Thanks Jacob,
That's a pretty clever idea, I've added it to our list as well.

-Charles

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> on behalf of jacob tompkins via groups.io <gtg007a@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 5:30 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design
 
As to utilities location/relocation.  Theres a  Georgia Tech lab called the “C-nes lab” (carbon neutral energy solutions)  where the main bay of the lab is designed to be easily reconfigurable.  It has 2 reinforced utilities trenches running the length of the lab on either side and heavy steel grates with ports to cover the trench.  All needed utilities (water, power, air, gas, etc) for machines/experiments can be run through the trenches using soft cable/hose and then removed easily when the bay needs to be reconfigured.

  If you look at the section drawing in this article they show a big trench on one end and theres a smaller one on the other not shown.

https://www.csemag.com/articles/carbon-neutral-energy-solutions-laboratory/

Were I starting new I’d be looking to do the same.  I’m incredibly jealous since my building was built 30 years before these and utilities location/relocation is an annoying annual expense that always requires a scissors lift and an electrician.  


-Jake Tompkins
Lab Manager
Digital Fabrication Lab 
School of Architecture 
Georgia Institute of Technology

On Aug 5, 2020, at 5:30 PM, Charles Allhands <charles.allhands@...> wrote:


Thanks Tom, I couldn't agree more on overdoing utilities. I will definitely be pushing for that.

-Charles

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> on behalf of Tom Silman via groups.io <thomas.silman@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:59 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design
 

I second the placement of power, ethernet, water hookups and drains.

 

Do not be pulled into the wireless is better argument.

RFI is a thing and hard cable minimizes a lot of the interference.

It is amazing how often an outlet and an ethernet port is needed.

I have ports and power placed in the floors and on the walls.

Caught much grief for the minimal added expense.

But, it is way more expensive to install new after the fact than it is to move port and power.

 

Make sure you have several flavors of power and map them on your test floors and lab spaces.

- 3phase/1phase 120VAC, 240VAC, 208VAC, 450 VAC – all of the standard voltages/phases.

Overdo it. It is more expensive to put in new than it is to run a new line.

Call your power company to find out what is available to your site on campus.

It may be that your site placement is not conveniently near a trunk line.

 

Also, one of the best things we did was to map all resources available in a lab space.

  • Power
  • Water
  • Floor drains
  • Chill water hook up
  • Compressed house air
  • Vacuum connections
  • Internet capable Ethernet
  • Local network only Ethernet (Control systems for the MTS system are isolated.)
  • Hydraulic line connections (We have a hard piped hydraulic system.)
  • Lab equipment ( after buildout )

When a PI wants to set up an experiment, an inordinate amount of time is spent coordinating resource locations.

If you make an as built space drawing available, it will shorten the discussions and time needed.

 

Some lab equipment require a special foundations.

A Charpy hammer for materials testing is a pretty good example.

While you can get away with just bolting to a 6in slab, a little planning allows a 36 inch deep pad to be placed and poured.

Makes for a more solid installation and more precise testing results.

If you include multiple outlets near the hammer, you can set up multiple temperature baths for material testing.

We use 6 baths set at various temperatures to show students the transition temperature for steels in one lab.

We couldn’t do this before. Not enough space or outlets.

 

I can go on… 😊

 

Regards

T

 

 

 

 

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Allhands
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:07 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

Chris,

That's a great idea, I hadn't even considered that!

 

Thanks,
Charles


From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> on behalf of Christopher Gordon via groups.io <gordoncl@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:00 AM
To:
main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io>
Cc: Allhands, Charles <
charles.allhands@...>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

Don't forget the roof!  When we expanded our facility in 2010 we created a rooftop workspace with regular door access and a robust railing system to allow for faculty/staff/student access without safety equipment or special certifications.  We conduct a safety orientation for users as needed and grant access to the area via a University ID card reader on the door.  The area is about 1000 sq ft and is regularly (but not heavily) used by wind, water and solar projects from our Civil and Environmental Engineering departments.  We also have ethernet, power, and water hookups on the roof (not generally used, handy for a webcam to monitor projects) and kept an open conduit to the indoor lab space below for future growth.  The only thing I wish we included were robust anchors in the roof for equipment like wind turbines, we end up using the railings as anchor points for some of the projects.

 

 

 


--

Chris Gordon

he, him, his

Director, Wilson Student Team Project Center

University of Michigan College of Engineering

2603 Draper, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2101

734-763-1224 | Fax 734-615-6411

 

 

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 10:15 AM Charles Allhands <charles.allhands@...> wrote:

Thanks Tom, those are great points. Some of our staff toured Marquette's lab awhile back and took inspiration from it. I haven't had a chance to see it yet but I would like to one of these days. I'll reach out to Dave when I get a chance.

 

Thanks,

Charles


From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> on behalf of Tom Silman via groups.io <thomas.silman=marquette.edu@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 5:44 PM
To:
main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io>
Subject: [External] Re: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

I was involved in the design build of Marquette University’s Discovery Learning Tower which contains the EMSTL.

https://www.marquette.edu/engineering/facilities/materials-structural-testing-lab.php

Strong wall/Strong floor with related material testing systems nearby. Concrete and Soils labs are adjacent.

The Director of Operations for the OCOE is one of the chief designers and is still here (probably bored due to the extended down time from Covid).

 

Storage

Storage is one of the first things that usually gets kyboshed but is the most important.

If you have a limited budget, you need to be able to pull useful items from storage or donation.

Every architect and engineer asks what you want to store because they will make a special place for it and won’t that be nice???

They want a list of things you probably won’t know to purchase for ten years and then you won’t have space…

So. Design a storage space for what you have now and double it or triple it if you can. Flexible space is like gold.

Make sure the space is next to the loading dock.

 

Loading dock

You will always be receiving something large to test.

Triple the size of the dock and have a dedicated place for material handling storage machines like a fork lift.

Stuff sits around the dock for months sometimes waiting for it to be installed, used and then stored (see storage)

 

Student Organizations

Concrete canoe, bridge and other things require flat space near the loading dock.

Places to hang coats. Places to study when not working on project. Places to clean up things.

You can put it adjacent to the Civil Testing floor so that they can see the real stuff being done.

We have a regular pipeline of grad students being developed from watching members of the student orgs work their projects.

 

Cleaning

Soils, concrete and steel all create an enormous amount of mess and dirt.

Make sure the drains have an oversized catch basin and the floor is pitched to the grate.

Simple I know, but you would be surprised how many architects forget this detail in the prints.

Have a large waterproof wall for hanging and cleaning tools with a hose that drains into a cleanable trough which then drains to the catch basin.

 

Material handling

We have a 10 ton crane over the entire civil floor.

It makes things easier to unload and place on the testing floor when needed. We move a lot of large pieces of steel.

The roll up access door is double sized to allow semi trailers to be parked inside and under the crane.

This is great during Wisconsin winters.

 

There is more but I’m running short of time.

 

If you would like a tour, come down and visit.

Contact Dave Newman for the grand tour at david.newman@...

He is understandably proud of his lab and a bit bored at the moment…

 

Regards

Tom Silman

Marquette University

OPUS College of Engineering

Discovery Learning Center

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@myssmc.groups.io <main@myssmc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Allhands
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 4:04 PM
To: main@myssmc.groups.io
Subject: [myssmc] Civil Engineering Lab Design

 

All,
For those of you who I've met or may remember me from previous SSMC discussions, I have relocated to Minnesota and am now the lab manager for the civil engineering department at the University of St. Thomas. We are currently in the process of designing a new building to house our civil engineering labs (including soils, structures, concrete, and CE student orgs). I was curious if anyone in the group has been involved in a similar project and has suggestions on things they wish they had done (or not done) after being in the new space for awhile?

Thanks,
Charles Allhands